Re: TSX demographics

[Tom Waugh]

Impression I have from reading the information is that it targets the young
under 30 executive making around 80k a year. Since I'm 62, am retired on a
second career, I don't fit at all. So, I'll keep on driving my 01 Prelude.

"JXStern" <JXSternChangeX2R@gte.net> wrote in message
news:557sgvcjkqprhlk6embpvt5sjggfo9754f@4ax.com...
> Who is supposed to buy that model, and who is actually buying it?
>
> I thought that basically smaller meant younger, but so far, the only
> driver I've seen in one didn't look very young.
>
> J.
>

[tomk]

80k is a little steep for this demographic. i would take it below 50k.
they are going for the IS300, A4 1.8, 325 crowd.
i think the demo is the MALE, single car, mid 20s, 50k, not-married.
however, that target is generally pretty knowledgeable in terms of
performance cars and sees the advantages and branding of the
competition. "i can get a bimmer for the price of an accord" mentallity.
i saw 2 friends pass up the tsx for the IS and 325.

shoulda left it a honda i say.


"Tom Waugh" <twaugh5@cox.net> wrote in message
news:IxHPa.1931$zd4.291@lakeread02...
> Impression I have from reading the information is that it targets the
young
> under 30 executive making around 80k a year. Since I'm 62, am retired on
a
> second career, I don't fit at all. So, I'll keep on driving my 01
Prelude.
>
> "JXStern" <JXSternChangeX2R@gte.net> wrote in message
> news:557sgvcjkqprhlk6embpvt5sjggfo9754f@4ax.com...
> > Who is supposed to buy that model, and who is actually buying it?
> >
> > I thought that basically smaller meant younger, but so far, the only
> > driver I've seen in one didn't look very young.
> >
> > J.
> >
>
>

[tomk]

good post.
but, i didn't feel that the TSX had much more luxury than
the accord.

here's what i think should happen:
move the plastic clad RSX to the honda line and offer 2
doors on the TSX. this would work pretty seamlessly since
i think the general public sees acura as just a costlier honda,
similar to the swapping of geo/chevy. i don't feel acura has
reached the status of a brand like lexus which stands on it own.





"Mikey" <%noospaam)mikling@eol.ca> wrote in message
news:hm0Qa.4006$yT6.1250@nntp-post.primus.ca...
> Honda boxed themselves in on this one. The North American Accord is the
> Japanese Honda Inspire - higher up than the Accord. I think you'll see
that
> the NA Accord is the better buy. Honda was forced to offer the JDM Inspire
> as the North American Accord thanks to Toyota's large and upgraded Camry.
If
> they offered the TSX sized JDM Accord in North America they would have
> gotten totally demolished by Toyota. If you are buying a TSX you are
paying
> a top top dollar for the Accord. I suspect the TSX is going to be orphaned
> after this generation. Looks like another Vigor which was the Honda
Inspire.
> Accord buyers rejoice in your luck from Toyota.
> "tomk" <no@mail.com> wrote in message
news:AYHPa.1363$b_4.498@lakeread07...
> > 80k is a little steep for this demographic. i would take it below 50k.
> > they are going for the IS300, A4 1.8, 325 crowd.
> > i think the demo is the MALE, single car, mid 20s, 50k, not-married.
> > however, that target is generally pretty knowledgeable in terms of
> > performance cars and sees the advantages and branding of the
> > competition. "i can get a bimmer for the price of an accord" mentallity.
> > i saw 2 friends pass up the tsx for the IS and 325.
> >
> > shoulda left it a honda i say.
> >
> >
> > "Tom Waugh" <twaugh5@cox.net> wrote in message
> > news:IxHPa.1931$zd4.291@lakeread02...
> > > Impression I have from reading the information is that it targets the
> > young
> > > under 30 executive making around 80k a year. Since I'm 62, am
retired
> on
> > a
> > > second career, I don't fit at all. So, I'll keep on driving my 01
> > Prelude.
> > >
> > > "JXStern" <JXSternChangeX2R@gte.net> wrote in message
> > > news:557sgvcjkqprhlk6embpvt5sjggfo9754f@4ax.com...
> > > > Who is supposed to buy that model, and who is actually buying it?
> > > >
> > > > I thought that basically smaller meant younger, but so far, the only
> > > > driver I've seen in one didn't look very young.
> > > >
> > > > J.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[Dan Drake]

On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 19:18:16 -0400, "tomk" <no@mail.com> wrote:

>here's what i think should happen:
>... offer 2
>doors on the TSX.

The Acura lineup is *so* missing a wishbone/multilink-suspended coupe
with a manual transmission. I would have bought a CL type S in a
heartbeat had it had a stick. Now there's not going to be a new CL,
much less one with a stick. And don't even get me started about
RWD...

I am somewhat seriously contemplating buying a 6-speed TSX though.
Without the nav system, the MSRP/delivery is $26,990. Dealer invoice
is $24,647 and there's a $795 dealer holdback, so actual dealer cost
is $23,852.

A local dealer told me(1) that dealers are only going to be getting
about 7 cars a month, and they are flying out the door. He had 3 left
on the lot, all six-speeds (interestingly). First haggling over price
yielded only $200 off the sticker price.

(1) Yeah, I know. For what it's worth.
--
Dan Drake

[Lee Florack]

On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 08:15:37 -0400, Dan Drake
<ddrake@NOTTHIS.comcast.net> wrote:

>On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 19:18:16 -0400, "tomk" <no@mail.com> wrote:
>
>>here's what i think should happen:
>>... offer 2
>>doors on the TSX.
>
>The Acura lineup is *so* missing a wishbone/multilink-suspended coupe
>with a manual transmission. I would have bought a CL type S in a
>heartbeat had it had a stick. Now there's not going to be a new CL,
>much less one with a stick. And don't even get me started about
>RWD...

I'm confused. I'm pretty sure the CL can be had with a 6-speed.
The TL-S (which I have) doesn't, but the CL does.

[Dan Drake]

On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 12:52:48 GMT, Lee Florack
<lflorack@rochester.rr.com> wrote:

>I'm confused. I'm pretty sure the CL can be had with a 6-speed.
>The TL-S (which I have) doesn't, but the CL does.

You're right. I guess that changed since the last time I looked. I
may have to reconsider the TSX thing...
--
Dan Drake

[Corey]

Dan Drake wrote:
> On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 12:52:48 GMT, Lee Florack
> <lflorack@rochester.rr.com> wrote:
>
>
>>I'm confused. I'm pretty sure the CL can be had with a 6-speed.
>>The TL-S (which I have) doesn't, but the CL does.
>
>
> You're right. I guess that changed since the last time I looked. I
> may have to reconsider the TSX thing...

Better hurry, tho. They may have already stopped production...

[Corey]

The people who see Acura as a costlier Honda are the same people who see
Lexus as a costlier Toyota and Infinity as a costlier Nissan. It's all
merely a matter of perspective.

tomk wrote:

> good post.
> but, i didn't feel that the TSX had much more luxury than
> the accord.
>
> here's what i think should happen:
> move the plastic clad RSX to the honda line and offer 2
> doors on the TSX. this would work pretty seamlessly since
> i think the general public sees acura as just a costlier honda,
> similar to the swapping of geo/chevy. i don't feel acura has
> reached the status of a brand like lexus which stands on it own.
>
>
>
>
>
> "Mikey" <%noospaam)mikling@eol.ca> wrote in message
> news:hm0Qa.4006$yT6.1250@nntp-post.primus.ca...
>
>>Honda boxed themselves in on this one. The North American Accord is the
>>Japanese Honda Inspire - higher up than the Accord. I think you'll see
>
> that
>
>>the NA Accord is the better buy. Honda was forced to offer the JDM Inspire
>>as the North American Accord thanks to Toyota's large and upgraded Camry.
>
> If
>
>>they offered the TSX sized JDM Accord in North America they would have
>>gotten totally demolished by Toyota. If you are buying a TSX you are
>
> paying
>
>>a top top dollar for the Accord. I suspect the TSX is going to be orphaned
>>after this generation. Looks like another Vigor which was the Honda
>
> Inspire.
>
>>Accord buyers rejoice in your luck from Toyota.
>>"tomk" <no@mail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:AYHPa.1363$b_4.498@lakeread07...
>
>>>80k is a little steep for this demographic. i would take it below 50k.
>>>they are going for the IS300, A4 1.8, 325 crowd.
>>>i think the demo is the MALE, single car, mid 20s, 50k, not-married.
>>>however, that target is generally pretty knowledgeable in terms of
>>>performance cars and sees the advantages and branding of the
>>>competition. "i can get a bimmer for the price of an accord" mentallity.
>>>i saw 2 friends pass up the tsx for the IS and 325.
>>>
>>>shoulda left it a honda i say.
>>>
>>>
>>>"Tom Waugh" <twaugh5@cox.net> wrote in message
>>>news:IxHPa.1931$zd4.291@lakeread02...
>>>
>>>>Impression I have from reading the information is that it targets the
>>>
>>>young
>>>
>>>>under 30 executive making around 80k a year. Since I'm 62, am
>
> retired
>
>>on
>>
>>>a
>>>
>>>>second career, I don't fit at all. So, I'll keep on driving my 01
>>>
>>>Prelude.
>>>
>>>>"JXStern" <JXSternChangeX2R@gte.net> wrote in message
>>>>news:557sgvcjkqprhlk6embpvt5sjggfo9754f@4ax.com...
>>>>
>>>>>Who is supposed to buy that model, and who is actually buying it?
>>>>>
>>>>>I thought that basically smaller meant younger, but so far, the only
>>>>>driver I've seen in one didn't look very young.
>>>>>
>>>>>J.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
>

[Lee Florack]

Corey,

On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 17:05:18 GMT, Corey <nomail@thisaddress.inv>
wrote:

>The people who see Acura as a costlier Honda are the same people who see
>Lexus as a costlier Toyota and Infinity as a costlier Nissan. It's all
>merely a matter of perspective.

I' agree with you but that's not what TomK said. He said that
although (most people feel that) Lexus stood on it's own, Acura
is viewed as a costlier Honda.

My question was why does he think (TomK) that.

[Mikey]

duh, they're all hondas in japan
"Corey" <nomail@thisaddress.inv> wrote in message
news:ijgQa.18087$BM.5564108@newssrv26.news.prodigy .com...
> The people who see Acura as a costlier Honda are the same people who see
> Lexus as a costlier Toyota and Infinity as a costlier Nissan. It's all
> merely a matter of perspective.
>
> tomk wrote:
>
> > good post.
> > but, i didn't feel that the TSX had much more luxury than
> > the accord.
> >
> > here's what i think should happen:
> > move the plastic clad RSX to the honda line and offer 2
> > doors on the TSX. this would work pretty seamlessly since
> > i think the general public sees acura as just a costlier honda,
> > similar to the swapping of geo/chevy. i don't feel acura has
> > reached the status of a brand like lexus which stands on it own.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "Mikey" <%noospaam)mikling@eol.ca> wrote in message
> > news:hm0Qa.4006$yT6.1250@nntp-post.primus.ca...
> >
> >>Honda boxed themselves in on this one. The North American Accord is the
> >>Japanese Honda Inspire - higher up than the Accord. I think you'll see
> >
> > that
> >
> >>the NA Accord is the better buy. Honda was forced to offer the JDM
Inspire
> >>as the North American Accord thanks to Toyota's large and upgraded
Camry.
> >
> > If
> >
> >>they offered the TSX sized JDM Accord in North America they would have
> >>gotten totally demolished by Toyota. If you are buying a TSX you are
> >
> > paying
> >
> >>a top top dollar for the Accord. I suspect the TSX is going to be
orphaned
> >>after this generation. Looks like another Vigor which was the Honda
> >
> > Inspire.
> >
> >>Accord buyers rejoice in your luck from Toyota.
> >>"tomk" <no@mail.com> wrote in message
> >
> > news:AYHPa.1363$b_4.498@lakeread07...
> >
> >>>80k is a little steep for this demographic. i would take it below 50k.
> >>>they are going for the IS300, A4 1.8, 325 crowd.
> >>>i think the demo is the MALE, single car, mid 20s, 50k, not-married.
> >>>however, that target is generally pretty knowledgeable in terms of
> >>>performance cars and sees the advantages and branding of the
> >>>competition. "i can get a bimmer for the price of an accord"
mentallity.
> >>>i saw 2 friends pass up the tsx for the IS and 325.
> >>>
> >>>shoulda left it a honda i say.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>"Tom Waugh" <twaugh5@cox.net> wrote in message
> >>>news:IxHPa.1931$zd4.291@lakeread02...
> >>>
> >>>>Impression I have from reading the information is that it targets the
> >>>
> >>>young
> >>>
> >>>>under 30 executive making around 80k a year. Since I'm 62, am
> >
> > retired
> >
> >>on
> >>
> >>>a
> >>>
> >>>>second career, I don't fit at all. So, I'll keep on driving my 01
> >>>
> >>>Prelude.
> >>>
> >>>>"JXStern" <JXSternChangeX2R@gte.net> wrote in message
> >>>>news:557sgvcjkqprhlk6embpvt5sjggfo9754f@4ax.com...
> >>>>
> >>>>>Who is supposed to buy that model, and who is actually buying it?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>I thought that basically smaller meant younger, but so far, the only
> >>>>>driver I've seen in one didn't look very young.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>J.
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
> >
> >
>

[tomk]

here's what i mean when i say acura(infiniti can also be included)
hasn't yet reached the status of lexus.

first off, acura doesn't have a big enough lineup with engine
choices and options. this is probably great for mass production,
but thats my point. mass produce and luxury kinda collide.
one of things i like about my TL is that i'm already familiar with it
cause i already owned an accord. in a lexus you can cleary see
they designed it to be a lexus.

acura is also missing the ultra luxurious line. ie. LS430, 745i,
S500. the RL hardly suits this class. its a bland TL with real
wood trim. its rated closer to the GS300, 530i, and E320
which it loses to all of them in terms of luxury.(actually edmunds
puts it in an even lower class)

i like acura for the value and business model, but it falls short
as far as branding and name-recognition.



"tomk" <no@mail.com> wrote in message news:ZG0Qa.4923$b_4.345@lakeread07...
> good post.
> but, i didn't feel that the TSX had much more luxury than
> the accord.
>
> here's what i think should happen:
> move the plastic clad RSX to the honda line and offer 2
> doors on the TSX. this would work pretty seamlessly since
> i think the general public sees acura as just a costlier honda,
> similar to the swapping of geo/chevy. i don't feel acura has
> reached the status of a brand like lexus which stands on it own.
>
>
>
>
>
> "Mikey" <%noospaam)mikling@eol.ca> wrote in message
> news:hm0Qa.4006$yT6.1250@nntp-post.primus.ca...
> > Honda boxed themselves in on this one. The North American Accord is the
> > Japanese Honda Inspire - higher up than the Accord. I think you'll see
> that
> > the NA Accord is the better buy. Honda was forced to offer the JDM
Inspire
> > as the North American Accord thanks to Toyota's large and upgraded
Camry.
> If
> > they offered the TSX sized JDM Accord in North America they would have
> > gotten totally demolished by Toyota. If you are buying a TSX you are
> paying
> > a top top dollar for the Accord. I suspect the TSX is going to be
orphaned
> > after this generation. Looks like another Vigor which was the Honda
> Inspire.
> > Accord buyers rejoice in your luck from Toyota.
> > "tomk" <no@mail.com> wrote in message
> news:AYHPa.1363$b_4.498@lakeread07...
> > > 80k is a little steep for this demographic. i would take it below 50k.
> > > they are going for the IS300, A4 1.8, 325 crowd.
> > > i think the demo is the MALE, single car, mid 20s, 50k, not-married.
> > > however, that target is generally pretty knowledgeable in terms of
> > > performance cars and sees the advantages and branding of the
> > > competition. "i can get a bimmer for the price of an accord"
mentallity.
> > > i saw 2 friends pass up the tsx for the IS and 325.
> > >
> > > shoulda left it a honda i say.
> > >
> > >
> > > "Tom Waugh" <twaugh5@cox.net> wrote in message
> > > news:IxHPa.1931$zd4.291@lakeread02...
> > > > Impression I have from reading the information is that it targets
the
> > > young
> > > > under 30 executive making around 80k a year. Since I'm 62, am
> retired
> > on
> > > a
> > > > second career, I don't fit at all. So, I'll keep on driving my 01
> > > Prelude.
> > > >
> > > > "JXStern" <JXSternChangeX2R@gte.net> wrote in message
> > > > news:557sgvcjkqprhlk6embpvt5sjggfo9754f@4ax.com...
> > > > > Who is supposed to buy that model, and who is actually buying it?
> > > > >
> > > > > I thought that basically smaller meant younger, but so far, the
only
> > > > > driver I've seen in one didn't look very young.
> > > > >
> > > > > J.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[JXStern]

On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 08:15:37 -0400, Dan Drake
<ddrake@NOTTHIS.comcast.net> wrote:
>I am somewhat seriously contemplating buying a 6-speed TSX though.
>Without the nav system, the MSRP/delivery is $26,990. Dealer invoice
>is $24,647 and there's a $795 dealer holdback, so actual dealer cost
>is $23,852.

Excellent info, thanx. Want to say how old you are?

>A local dealer told me(1) that dealers are only going to be getting
>about 7 cars a month, and they are flying out the door. He had 3 left
>on the lot, all six-speeds (interestingly). First haggling over price
>yielded only $200 off the sticker price.

My dealer, too.

My guestimate of current lease price on a $25k price (don't want to
starve the poor dealer!) is right around $300/month. So if the dealer
is quoting me like $350/month, he's full of crap, and in a couple of
attempts at negotiation that's been the indicated range.

S'Okay, I can wait, ... or just buy the Accord, or a closeout CL or
TL, all cheaper, faster, and just as luxurious.

J.

[Mikey]

Acura lost the real recognition it had when the Legend was more top of mind
than Acura. In hindsight, they should have changed the name acura to Legend.
Here's another reason why - I remember when they said that Acura connoted
precision and high quality. Unfortunately that connotation only appeals to
gearheads. People want image and luxury - the AVERAGE buyer. The Legend name
creates heritage that Acura never will. Lexus, gave people a soft mellow car
and succeeded like crazy. Legends were seldom appreciated as the driving
machines they were whereas people were looking again for luxury and image
and that is why they slowly lost share. The 3.5RL is designed by the same
engineers who eventually turn the page and see RSX another day. They are
stuck in between and bland. That said... that's good for me when I go
shopping for a used 3.5RL later cause nobody wants a boring car they'll be
real cheap then.
"tomk" <no@mail.com> wrote in message news:yJnQa.5480$b_4.5233@lakeread07...
> here's what i mean when i say acura(infiniti can also be included)
> hasn't yet reached the status of lexus.
>
> first off, acura doesn't have a big enough lineup with engine
> choices and options. this is probably great for mass production,
> but thats my point. mass produce and luxury kinda collide.
> one of things i like about my TL is that i'm already familiar with it
> cause i already owned an accord. in a lexus you can cleary see
> they designed it to be a lexus.
>
> acura is also missing the ultra luxurious line. ie. LS430, 745i,
> S500. the RL hardly suits this class. its a bland TL with real
> wood trim. its rated closer to the GS300, 530i, and E320
> which it loses to all of them in terms of luxury.(actually edmunds
> puts it in an even lower class)
>
> i like acura for the value and business model, but it falls short
> as far as branding and name-recognition.
>
>
>
> "tomk" <no@mail.com> wrote in message
news:ZG0Qa.4923$b_4.345@lakeread07...
> > good post.
> > but, i didn't feel that the TSX had much more luxury than
> > the accord.
> >
> > here's what i think should happen:
> > move the plastic clad RSX to the honda line and offer 2
> > doors on the TSX. this would work pretty seamlessly since
> > i think the general public sees acura as just a costlier honda,
> > similar to the swapping of geo/chevy. i don't feel acura has
> > reached the status of a brand like lexus which stands on it own.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "Mikey" <%noospaam)mikling@eol.ca> wrote in message
> > news:hm0Qa.4006$yT6.1250@nntp-post.primus.ca...
> > > Honda boxed themselves in on this one. The North American Accord is
the
> > > Japanese Honda Inspire - higher up than the Accord. I think you'll see
> > that
> > > the NA Accord is the better buy. Honda was forced to offer the JDM
> Inspire
> > > as the North American Accord thanks to Toyota's large and upgraded
> Camry.
> > If
> > > they offered the TSX sized JDM Accord in North America they would have
> > > gotten totally demolished by Toyota. If you are buying a TSX you are
> > paying
> > > a top top dollar for the Accord. I suspect the TSX is going to be
> orphaned
> > > after this generation. Looks like another Vigor which was the Honda
> > Inspire.
> > > Accord buyers rejoice in your luck from Toyota.
> > > "tomk" <no@mail.com> wrote in message
> > news:AYHPa.1363$b_4.498@lakeread07...
> > > > 80k is a little steep for this demographic. i would take it below
50k.
> > > > they are going for the IS300, A4 1.8, 325 crowd.
> > > > i think the demo is the MALE, single car, mid 20s, 50k, not-married.
> > > > however, that target is generally pretty knowledgeable in terms of
> > > > performance cars and sees the advantages and branding of the
> > > > competition. "i can get a bimmer for the price of an accord"
> mentallity.
> > > > i saw 2 friends pass up the tsx for the IS and 325.
> > > >
> > > > shoulda left it a honda i say.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "Tom Waugh" <twaugh5@cox.net> wrote in message
> > > > news:IxHPa.1931$zd4.291@lakeread02...
> > > > > Impression I have from reading the information is that it targets
> the
> > > > young
> > > > > under 30 executive making around 80k a year. Since I'm 62, am
> > retired
> > > on
> > > > a
> > > > > second career, I don't fit at all. So, I'll keep on driving my 01
> > > > Prelude.
> > > > >
> > > > > "JXStern" <JXSternChangeX2R@gte.net> wrote in message
> > > > > news:557sgvcjkqprhlk6embpvt5sjggfo9754f@4ax.com...
> > > > > > Who is supposed to buy that model, and who is actually buying
it?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I thought that basically smaller meant younger, but so far, the
> only
> > > > > > driver I've seen in one didn't look very young.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > J.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[johnfofawn@hotmail.com]

Hi,

Where did you get these numbers? How do I get numbers like this for
other cars? How do you know what the holdback is?

John